[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:01:09] <rdieter>	KDE SIG Meeting start, who's present today?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:01:18] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-16 --Init".
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:01:33] <svahl>	present
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:01:36] <jreznik>	present
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:01:44] <SMParrish>	here
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:01:56] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler, than, ltinkl, kdefoo*: ping
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:02:03] <than>	present
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:02:06] 	 * ltinkl is here
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:02:08] <Kevin_Kofler>	Present
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:02:46] <rdieter>	nice, let's the get started, topc: any interest in picking up Features/OpenChange (for F11, it won't make F10)?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:02:51] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-16 --any interest in picking up Features/OpenChange (for F11, it won't make F10)?".
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:03:19] 	 * lvillani present (phew)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:03:37] <Kevin_Kofler>	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/OpenChange
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:03:38] <rdieter>	shrug, all *we* really care about is libmapi, we could probably pick up the (co)maintainance, at least in the short term.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:04:02] <Kevin_Kofler>	Well, the libmapi depends on the other stuff in the Samba4/OpenChange stack.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:04:53] <Kevin_Kofler>	What's clear is that this feature won't be ready for F10, well it might be possible to rush the reviews in, but it won't be user-visible before kdepim 4.1.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:04:55] <rdieter>	rats, I forgot.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:05:08] <Kevin_Kofler>	Before 4.2, I mean.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:05:16] <Kevin_Kofler>	OpenChange is unsupported in 4.1, the code is there, but it doesn't compile.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:05:22] <Kevin_Kofler>	It's unfinished.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:05:35] <rdieter>	ah, no rush then, as long as we can help move this along for the 4.2 timeframe.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:06:32] <rdieter>	unfortunately, it seems abartlet may not be interested in helping much before F11
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:08:05] <rdieter>	any other comments here?  move on?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:09:25] <than>	move on
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:09:29] <rdieter>	ok, next topic: Release notes for KDE (needed for Beta? Final?)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:09:37] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-16 -- Release notes for KDE (needed for Beta? Final?)".
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:09:48] <Kevin_Kofler>	Well, the feature page for OpenChange still needs an owner though!
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:19] <Kevin_Kofler>	Or should I just mark it as owned by KDE SIG?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:26] <Stalwart>	What about an
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:27] <Stalwart>	eepc Enlightenment spin? Eeeedora? ;)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:32] <Stalwart>	woops, mispaste
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:34] <Stalwart>	sorry
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:40] <lvillani>	:)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:48] <jreznik>	Or coowned by KDE SIG?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:52] <rdieter>	looks like we'll need at least one sucker^H^H^H errr, volunteer to whip KDE-related docs into shape.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:11:43] <rdieter>	a dirty unglamorous job, maybe something that might be good for someone @redhat to work on (hint hint... ) :)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:12:09] <Stalwart>	how about that guy doing screencasts
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:12:16] <Kevin_Kofler>	For the release notes, we'll want at least the contents from the https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F9/FEDORA-2008-6743 update notes (except the 2 notes, as kdepim 4.1 will be included in F10 and the phonon-backend-xine stuff should only affect former F9 updates-testing users).
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:12:25] <lvillani>	Kushal?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:12:38] <Kevin_Kofler>	And we should also list the obsoleted packages and what KDE 4.1 module obsoletes each of them.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:12:45] <rdieter>	lvillani: kushal is him
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:12:54] <than>	jreznik: it's great if you could look at Release notes for KDE
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:13:18] <than>	or ltinkl?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:13:44] <jreznik>	than: ok
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:13:55] <than>	jreznik: great, thanks :)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:14:16] <rdieter>	jreznik: many thanks, your fedora-merit badge is in the mail.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:14:26] <ltinkl>	>]
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:14:33] <Kevin_Kofler>	See the notes I wrote up for 4.0.0 in F9 for how the list of obsoleted packages could look like. :-)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:14:53] <Kevin_Kofler>	Of course, if you can present it better while delivering the same kind of information, that's even better. :-)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:15:07] <jreznik>	Kevin_Kofler: ok, I'll take a look tomorrow
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:15:12] <Kevin_Kofler>	I'll double-check the exact list of obsoletions so we don't miss one.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:16:15] <rdieter>	alrighty, next topic: Status of KDE 4.1.1 in F9/updates-testing (FEDORA-2008-7789)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:16:21] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-16 -- Status of KDE 4.1.1 in F9/updates-testing (FEDORA-2008-7789)".
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:16:24] <Kevin_Kofler>	I see at least: okteta -> kdeutils, dragonplayer -> kdemultimedia, kaider -> kdesdk (renamed to Lokalize), ksirk -> kdegames, extragear-plasma renamed to kdeplasma-addons.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:16:43] <rdieter>	https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F9/FEDORA-2008-7789
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:17:01] <Kevin_Kofler>	Well, the one real problem is the Konqueror regression I've put up for "recent bugs".
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:17:08] <Kevin_Kofler>	I don't think there are any other blockers.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:17:27] <rdieter>	from reading the upstream report, that only occurs if you have the javascript console enabled (or not?)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:17:49] <than>	i don't see any blockers here, IMO we should push 4.1.1 in F9 this friday
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:17:51] <Kevin_Kofler>	It occurs at least if you have JavaScript enabled, which 99% of the users have.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:03] <rdieter>	crap, apparently not, I see 4 konq processes on my laptop
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:17] <Kevin_Kofler>	than: We need the regression fixed now.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:19] <than>	the konquerror bug could be fixed later
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:19] <lvillani>	last comment says it happens even when js is disabled
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:29] <Kevin_Kofler>	It should be fixed first.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:41] <Kevin_Kofler>	It's more annoying than anything 4.1.1 fixes.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:43] <lvillani>	oh, it's a mistake by the author :)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:43] <Kevin_Kofler>	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461725
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:44] <rdieter>	nod, any fixes/patches  looming?  if nothing is coming soon, blocking indefinitely is undesirable
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:45] <buggbot>	Bug 461725: medium, medium, ---, than@redhat.com, ASSIGNED, Konqueror does not finish its procces on exit (KDE 4.1.1)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:19:01] <lvillani>	(comment #43 and #44)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:19:07] Topic	Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-16 -- https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461725 Konqueror does not finish ...".
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:19:31] <Kevin_Kofler>	There's some speculation it's caused by the fix for the JavaScript console problem.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:19:40] <Kevin_Kofler>	Instead of fixing that, they made the problem worse.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:19:47] <Kevin_Kofler>	So we should try reverting that patch and see what happens.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:20:14] <lvillani>	I am willing to do some testing here
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:20:20] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: I'm ok with testing out the reversion, and if it helps, use that in the short-term.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:20:21] <Kevin_Kofler>	I.e. the patch for http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169881 is claimed to be the offender.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:20:23] <buggbot>	Bug 169881: is not accessible.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:21:30] <lvillani>	so we'll need to make a 'reverse-patch'?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:21:56] <rdieter>	anyone with time/interest to lead fixing 461725?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:22:25] <rdieter>	I can tonight/tomorrow if no one beats me to it first.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:22:55] 	 * lvillani has very limited time these days
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:23:02] <rdieter>	otherwise, if we can get this blocker out of the way, any objections to fast-tracking 4.1.1 to stable updates?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:23:17] <Kevin_Kofler>	No, that's the only blocker I know of.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:24:20] <jreznik>	4.1.1 looks OK for me with more than 40 konquerors running :)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:24:31] <rdieter>	excellent.  looks like we've run out of agenda then, anything left to discuss today?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:24:39] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-16 -- Open Discussion".
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:24:56] <ltinkl>	those processes dont waste any extra memory as konq is preloaded anyway
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:25:10] <ltinkl>	it just looks strange :]
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:26:08] <Kevin_Kofler>	A FYI: with ksirk obsoleted by KDE 4.1, the only thing still using kdegames3-devel is kdeaddons-atlantikdesigner. I think this can probably build without the KDE 3 libkdegames.so devel symlink (it currently links -lkdegames, but I think it only really needs -latlantikui), so I'll be trying to get rid of libkdegames.so from kdegames3-devel.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:26:09] <rdieter>	Re FUDConBrno, was there any video taken (I'm mostly interested in the KDE presentation)?  Either way, can someone blog about it?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:26:20] <Kevin_Kofler>	The advantage would be that we could drop the parallel-devel hacks from kdegames.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:26:31] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: neat
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:26:37] <jreznik>	rdieter: video was taken
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:26:39] <Kevin_Kofler>	I'll keep you up to date if I get it working.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:27:08] <rdieter>	jreznik: by who?  any idea when/if that'll get posted or be avaialble for viewing?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:27:19] <jreznik>	rdieter: by rvokal
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:27:49] <jreznik>	I can ask him to publish it ASAP ;)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:28:04] <rdieter>	jreznik: nice
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:28:29] <lvillani>	I'm packaging 4.2 snapshot (4.1.66) on my own, I know it's too early to get it in rawhide but I hope that this helps (plus that I need 4.1.6x releases for personal needs so I'm not wasting my time)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:28:33] <lvillani>	*snapshots
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:29:15] <jreznik>	and another topic from FUDCon - is there some guide to new KDE features? people were asking about panel resizing, theming and so on
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:29:36] <lvillani>	when the complete collection is ready I will publish the tree somewhere so that rdieter, Kevin_Kofler or others may review the specfiles (slighly changed, though)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:29:53] <Kevin_Kofler>	jreznik: Well, the desktop user guide still talks about F8 and KDE 3. :-/
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:29:56] <svahl>	jreznik: We'll need a volunteer for the Desktop Guide, too
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:30:08] <Kevin_Kofler>	Our Fedora documentation is horribly out of date when it comes to KDE.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:31:43] <jreznik>	wiki needs some work, it's quite outdated
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:33:08] 	 * Bouska1 thinks that he will have quite some new translations soon
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:35:04] <svahl>	I assume the switch to echo-icon-theme will happen after the beta freeze?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:36:02] <jreznik>	there are some guides for our inspiration like http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/desktop.php
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:36:03] <rdieter>	it'll happen when/if someone updates kde-settings to use it.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:36:46] <than>	many icons are missing in systemsettings
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:36:48] <rdieter>	it = echo-icon-theme.  After having used it a bit, it's nice, but is missing a lot of kde-stuff, I'm concerned there may not be enough time to properly test and get missing/fall-back icons fixed in time.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:37:28] <rdieter>	that said, I'm still willing to give it a try, but it'll take some work to help id the missing bits, and bug art folks to fix/update when we need.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:38:00] <rdieter>	than: wrt recent kde-settings updates, you got my note about fedorahosted/kde-settings ?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:38:28] <than>	rdieter: yes, i will commit the change to federahosted
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:39:12] <rdieter>	thanks, once that's done, the icon change was already committed there, we just need to make a new release (I can, soonish).
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:39:42] <Kevin_Kofler>	Won't it just fallback to Oxygen if the Echo icons are missing?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:39:54] <than>	Kevin_Kofler: it should
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:39:57] <Kevin_Kofler>	So where's the big problem there?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:40:22] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: I thought so, but there's some intermediate fallback going on here (ie, seems to use echo generic fallbacks, instead of falling back to exact-match oxygen ones instead).
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:40:44] <than>	rdieter: it's a bug in echo,
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:40:55] <rdieter>	oh.  I'm just totally guessing. :)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:41:58] <rdieter>	than: bugs filed?  and/or are art folks aware of it?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:42:09] <than>	Kevin_Kofler: the mixture of oxygen and echo doesn't look good IMO
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:42:34] <Kevin_Kofler>	Well, that's a "feature" of KDE 4's icon loader, it will fallback to generic icons from the same theme before falling back down the inheritance hierarchy.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:42:47] <Kevin_Kofler>	It's what the fd.o specs specify, but nobody implemented it before KDE 4.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:43:09] <Kevin_Kofler>	I consider it a bad idea, but it was exactly for consistency concerns like than's that it was specified that way.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:43:20] <Kevin_Kofler>	And some parts of KDE rely on this feature, so patching it is a bad idea.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:43:41] <Kevin_Kofler>	E.g. start-here-kde should fallback to start-here before going down the inheritance.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:44:23] <rdieter>	so, using echo needswork to make it usable.  shocker. :)  let's see if we can (help) make it happen.  worst case, we can fallback to using oxygen (like F-9)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:46:49] <rdieter>	anything else?  Or can we settle for an awesomely short(er) meeting?
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:48:29] <rdieter>	ok, KDE-SIG Meeting end, thanks all.
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:48:51] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule".
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:49:12] <rdieter>	svahl: log bot? :)
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:49:26] <svahl>	affirmative
[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:49:27] <svahl>	:)
